So, Lets get this thing started.

Here are a few rumors I've heard about. The bucs are interested in Hermida again, and maybe Young. I like the idea of possibly buying low there. There have been rumors about McLouth possibly being traded to the Yankees and that the Yankees are also considering moving Cano. I would not trade McLouth for Cano straight up if Im Neal. But I would consider Cano and Kennedy. I've also heard Cleveland may have interest in Freddy. I think that could be done, but who would we get in return? Some young pitching? A shortstop? Do we match up well with Cleveland at all? Of course the Javk Wilson Rumors will be flying this winter. Where might he end up? Baltimore? Toronto? St. Louis? I would love to see big LaRoche traded, but where is his value right now? I'd guess it's more likely he goes at the deadline, if at all. And the Bucs might also be taking offers on Snell. So it should be an interesting offseason. Weigh in on some trade possibilities you would like to see.

I would like to see an upgrade in defense, so lean toward seeing Doumit, McLouth, and maybe Sanchez being the trade candidates. They might get offers for Snell (everyone wants pitching, it seems) but what's the point in dealing him now? He has to be at a low point value wise. Better to see if he gets off to a better start next year. I think he has to learn something other than fastballs, though, if he wants to have much of a career.

During the week there was a report that the Pirates would not trade McClouth unless a team drastically overpaid for him. I think that's a good stance for Neal to take, and not because of the potential public outcry that would accompany a Nate trade. In terms of what I think "drastic overpayment" would mean, think starting with Hughes and adding on Cano from the Yanks; none of this Melky, Kennedy, and a lower level prospect talk that's been going around. In addition, I think if they could get something promising for big LaRoche, like a shortstop that's in the show, or is ready for it, then we should pull the trigger there too. Brignac and Hu seem to be the biggest names out there in terms of SS's who can step in next April, but what do the Rays and Dodgers need? I think any team would be happy to take a chance on Snell regaining form, but we can't sell too low on him either. If the Yankees want to disregard Cano's off year in 2008, we need to do the same with Ian. So...any thoughts on this or any other ways we can get a SS or a 1B?

Adam "Big" LaRoche - I think the Yankees match up well. If then end up spending a bundle of money on their rotation, they might not have enough to go after Teixeira. Yet they will still want a 1st baseman. LaRoche's defense was pretty good this year and another solid season would make him a Type B free agent, netting the Yankees a draft pick. I think Ian Kennedy would be a good return. The Yankees get a good lefty bat who plays good defense, and likely a compensatory pick in 2010. The Pirates save a few bucks and get a good young pitcher in return. Kennedy's upside is really a #3 starter. I liken his upside to what Kevin Slowey did this year for the Twins. Both have below average velocity on their fastballs but generally good control. Through AAA, Kennedy had better strikeout rates than Slowey, but also allowed more walks. The Yankees have enough other decent prospects that a package other than Kennedy would work. One thing working in the Pirates' favor is that the 1st base market (for guys who can actually play defense) is very weak after Teixeira. However, there aren't a ton of other teams for whom LaRoche would be a big upgrade, so his market might be a little limited. This kind of move would open an everyday spot for Pearce, but at this point that might be a bad thing.

Honestly, I can't think of any good way for the Pirates to pick up a great SS prospect. There aren't that many of them out there these days. Doesn't look like the Rays are willing to trade Brignac. If Furcal re-signs with the Dodgers than Hu probably becomes more available, but I don't see how the Pirates and Dodgers match up. The Dodgers might need a 3rd baseman (which the Pirates don't really have) or a 2nd baseman (but Freddy's value is way too low). Or they need established pitching, but I don't know that the Pirates should sell low on Snell and I think Maholm is the real deal (as an established #3 pitcher), so no sense trading him unless the package is ridiculous.

Wonder if they could get Hu by taking on a bad contract? Maybe exchange Freddy Sanchez for Andruw Jones if the Pirates get Hu in return? Dodgers probably need to throw in a little money, and such a move would force McLouth to LF and hold back McCutchen a little. Still, it would be worth it to get Hu. Andruw sounds pretty motivated to prove himself since he will be a free agent again after 2009. Just a thought.

In the recent past I have had some optimism for the bucs. I don't have it going into 2009. As a result I am a proponent of blowing it up completely. Anyone with value goes out the door preferably for talent that is 1-2 years away. Players I am a fan of trading.

Value high:
Doumit
McClouth
Maholm
Capps
The pirates almost never sell a player at his highest value. These guys could net the pirates some elite talent. Forgive me, but I am not a Nate the great believer now is the time to sell. I love Doumit's bat, but the poor guy can't seem to stay healthy. Regardless, he still has value. Maholm had an awesome year for a woeful staff, but he doesn't really have electric stuff.

Other guys I would deal if the offer is there:
AD LaRoche
Sanchez
Wilson
Snell

I really like the idea of Hermida. I think Elvia Andrus and Brandon Wood should be two SS targets. In the meantime the pirates should pursue fallen angels and relamation projects (think Marlins last year with Cantu and McPherson). This team needs to take some risks and stockpile good young players.

I generally agree that all these guys should be shopped, but I disagree that the team should be blown up, just because blowing the team up means you might trade a few guys at less than full value just for the sake of the full rebuilding process.

My other concerns is the level of talent the Pirates could actually get for all these players. It is easy to say "sell high!" but other teams know Doumit, McLouth, and Maholm are coming off their best years and these may end up being their career years. Smart teams don't want to pay for that. Another 1/2 season at that high level for Doumit, McLouth, and Maholm would further increase their values. At the same time, their is some risk of fall-off. So the Pirates need to look for and listen to deals, but not be afraid to hold tight if the trades aren't there.

For instance, no way McLouth should be traded to the Yankees if an elite player isn't included (Cano, Hughes, Montero). Kennedy and 2-3 other OK prospects with limited upside shouldn't be the package.

I am definitely a proponent of moving Capps. He's cheap, very effective, and very consistent. He should have more trade value than Huston Street (overrated and injury prone) and might be a more palatable option to teams than overpaying for Fuentes or K-Rod.

The nice thing about trying to move Doumit is that the bat has always been there. Because he didn't come out of no where like McLouth, more teams will believe he is real. His health is the only problem.

There hasn't been much mention of any off season pitching pickups. Is there anyone on your shopping lists you'd like to see the Bucs pickup, either through a trade or as a free agent?

One name which might be worthy of a gamble is Ben Sheets. Another injury at season's end might dampen his money prospects and make him more appealing to the Pirates. He's never had that lights out season that a lot of free agents have, but if he's injury free he racks up some innings and is consistent. My main reason for wanting him is that consistency, a variable that most of the others in the rotation don't seem to have.

What seems more in line as to what the Pirates might pursue is Odalis Perez. He'd be relatively cheap, always a primary concern to the PBC, and has a very good rapport with young pitchers. The Nats are thought to want him back, but price may be a deciding factor. Perez is not a top of the rotation pitcher, but he's affordable----and that's often the bottom line with the F.O.

Randy Johnson is well past his prime, but he's still got gas in his tank. Going for that 300th win is going to cause some attention to be thrown his way. The guy still gets strikeouts and in all but 2 seasons has kept his ERA below 4.00 with a nice WHIP. He's almost a cinch to head for a big market team, but wouldn't it be great to have a future Hall of Famer notch his 300th win as the marquee pitcher on your hometown team? The '09 Bucs have no star power and he's one guy who would put butts in the seats.

I have three names to consider for the '09 (and beyond) Bucs:

Ben Sheets - 2 months ago, I would have broke the bank for him; now it looks like he may not command the dollars and years that would have put him out of the Pirates' range; if we could get him for 3-4 years and $35-50M; if he stays healthy, he's easily the ace of the staff
Pedro Martinez - depending on how much he would cost and if he would be willing, he would be an excellent addition as an innings-eater and mentor to the young group of Bucs pitchers (Maholm, Snell, Gorzo)
Daniel Cabrera - I must admit I have no idea why he fell so far out of favor during the second half; all I remember during the first half is that the only face time the Orioles got on SportsCenter was when Cabrera was pitching; it's likely that he won't be brought back by the O's, so why not try to give him a one-year flyer and see if he can regain his stuff - Pittsburgh is the place for one-season wonders after all.

Ideal rotation to come out of this: Sheets, Maholm, Martinez, Snell, Gorzo/Ohlendorf/Duke

Thoughts?

The Pirates will not win in 2009, so I don't see any reason crippling themselves in the future with injury-prone starters like Sheets or Martinez. Wouldn't kill to get someone on a 1-year contract, but I just don't see any of the mentioned names having any desire to come to Pittsburgh. RJ won't have any problem finding a job and will probably want to play for a winner. Pedro probably wants a winner, though he might go to a bad team if he gets offered a bunch of years since he's breaking down pretty routinely. Sheets will probably get something like Schmidt's contract with the Dodgers. He's a risk and he would be gone just as the Pirates were getting competitive. If he keeps breaking down, he would really hurt the organization's financial flexibility.

To sum up, you all are crazy. If the Pirates go down this road, they better get some good insurance policies and some good doctors.

Alright, to change the subject...if the Pirates are only going to consider "overpayment" to trade McClouth, what do you guys consider to be overpayment? That is, what specific players from potential teams that may be interested in Nate?

Nice question.

From the Yankees, overpayment would be Hughes plus anything significant. Straight-up for Hughes might be an overpayment too, but it would carry some risk for the Pirates. Another option might be Montero + a couple other significant prospects.

From the Braves, any trade built around Heyward or Hanson that includes additional decent prospects. This will never happen though, the Braves have proven to be smart.

The White Sox system is too weak for them to overpay!

From the Phillies, maybe a trade that includes Carlos Carrasco, Lou Marson/Jason Donald, plus a couple other prospects. This might not be a true overpayment though since the Phillies kind of lack elite talent.

Just a few ideas. I think the Yankees and Braves match up well (overpayment or not), but I would be surprised if anyone actually blew the Pirates out of the water. The CF market is weak this year, but McLouth isn't quite established enough to justify overpayment. Maybe at the trade deadline if he has a repeat season.

What about the Marlins? They need a CF and McClouth seems to fit their mold (cheap, young). They will be trying to shed some salary by getting rid of players due significant arbitration raises. I know they are looking to move Jacobs, Uggla, and Hermida to name a few. While I certainly wouldn't mind to see any of those faces in a buccos uniform, unless we move big Laroche we have no need for Jacobs and Uggla's defense is suspect at best. I would like to see Hermida, but he couldn't be the centerpiece in that deal. Maybin would also be an interesting piece. A future outfield of Cutch, Tabata and Maybin sounds like a baseball america wet dream.

They also have a lot of good young pitching. Olsen is a guy I think they would be willing to move (I think he is due an arb raise). I would much rather see Josh Johnson though. Other names:
Chris Volstad: Young earned a rotation spot last year. They probably wouldn't move him.
Ryan Tucker: The kind of power arm NH and co love
Brett Sinkbeil: Sinkerball pitcher with high pedigree that has had some injury problems
Sean West- Project guy, good pedigree but recetly had labrum surjery (we love aquiring these guys)

So here is my proposed deal:
Marlins get: McClouth and Paulino
Pirates get: Johnson/Olsen, Hermida, Tucker, West

Where does Duffy fit into the 09 plans? Is he a trade throw in? Or does he stay while McLouth gets traded? I assume (but don't know for sure) that he has to go back on the 40 man roster at some point, so I would think some decision has to be made.

I don't how realistic it is. But I'd love to get Maybin. McLouth and Paulino for Maybin and a higher salary guy that the Marlins would want to get rid of to save some cash? I don't know.